The wife and I were good little liberals and went to see Fahrenheit 9/11 on opening night last Friday.
One word: go.
I won’t go into too much detail about why you should see this movie, since you can read about many different reasons all over the net. I will only say that it made me even angrier at our current administration and more determined than ever to get this clown out of his stolen office. Like the hand-made note I saw pinned to some guy’s shirt on opening night: Defeat or Impeach, Now or Later.
I’ve been thinking about how people are comparing this movie event to The Passion of the Christ and I think that it’s a pretty good analogy. Both movies have organizations mobilizing their members to get out and see them and try to convince others to do the same. Both movies are setting records. Both movies are heavily slanted to an ideological position.
But I think that there is another comparison to bring up. Remember when the Republicans impeached Clinton? Remember Ken Starr? Remember all of our money that was spent investigating a blow job? Millions of dollars were wasted on that sad debacle and the ultimate result was just that–a waste.
Well, in a way, Fahrenheit 9/11 is our own impeachment trial. There is the potential for public opinion to be swayed dramatically and the very real end result could be that Bush will not be re-elected. Moore’s movie could help us get Bush out of office without our tax dollars being spent on impeachment investigations and depleting our budget. In fact, it’s just the opposite. The movie helps our economy. Millions of dollars are being distributed through our economy and the American taxpayer doesn’t have to pay a dime. I think it’s a win/win.
While I agree with you that Bush has got to go, and we disagree on other things (I was a hawk, you a dove), I have to call you out on this:
Well, in a way, Fahrenheit 9/11 is our own impeachment trial. There is the potential for public opinion to be swayed dramatically and the very real end result could be that Bush will not be re-elected.
Now I think I understand what you’re saying, in that it’s a harrassment of Bush much like the impeachment trial was a harrasment of Clinton. But remember, trials are tests of law, not public opinion.
Kevin, I did not mean to sound condescending to you. If I offended you, I’m sorry. It is for this reason that I hate to debate politics online. It is the worst way to talk about these kinds of things and I have purposefully tried to lessen the amount of political entries on themuy for that reason. I’m trying to have a friendly debate with you; there’s a smile on my face as I write all of this.
Comparing Michael Moore’s movies to Bush’s speeches is an apples to oranges comparison. That being said, I would not debate one of Bush’s speeches with you had I not heard it.
As for my “it was Bush’s decision that we went to war” statement and your counter that the Dems voted for it too, you would have known that Moore brings up this very point in F911 if you had seen it. He holds the Dems just as culpable as Bush. Bush, however, is the commander in chief and it’s his watch.
Thanks for pointing out that quote by Moore. I had not read it. Nor do I believe in everything Moore says. I said earlier that I think he’s a blowhard. I’m just glad to have a blowhard on my side for a change. It’s a “fire with fire” approach and overall not ideal, but (along with Air America Radio) it’s all we have right now.
Kevin, I can’t debate you about this movie anymore since you have not seen it. Thanks for the discussion though. Please, no hard feelings, okay?
Oh yeah, the “terrorists have already won” statement was a joke. I would never say that with a straight face. If you prefer, swap it out with “god kills a kitten.”
While I agree with you that Bush has got to go, and we disagree on other things (I was a hawk, you a dove), I have to call you out on this:
Well, in a way, Fahrenheit 9/11 is our own impeachment trial. There is the potential for public opinion to be swayed dramatically and the very real end result could be that Bush will not be re-elected.
Now I think I understand what you’re saying, in that it’s a harrassment of Bush much like the impeachment trial was a harrasment of Clinton. But remember, trials are tests of law, not public opinion.
Well, maybe I wasn’t that clear. Let’s put it this way:
The Republicans wanted Clinton out of office and blew (pun intended) some things way out of proportion to impeach him (although ultimately it was too little too late). They wasted alot of our money in the process.
Moore wants Bush out of office and spent his own money trying to prove his point. Cost to us? Nothing.
Of course, Moore’s movie has no legal implication. What I’m trying to say is that Moore is trying to get Bush out of office and he’s not wasting anybody’s tax money to do it. To the contrary, he’s actually helping the economy in the process.
If Moore’s movie sways enough voters, he will have done way more than the Republicans ever accomplished with Clinton and spent less of our money in the process. Yes, trials are law, but they are also opinion. Elections are, in a way, laws voted on by the constituents.
I know it’s a stretch of an argument, but so was the Iraq war.
I hope you’re right. Prince George has got to go.
Who do you think can eat more corndogs, Michael Moore or Rush Limbaugh?
My money’s on Moore.
I haven’t seen the movie yet but plan on going soon. We need some left-wing propaganda right about now because the Republicans have gotten pretty damn good at it.
You know, I don’t really know you that well so maybe it’s not appropriate for me to argue with you on your blog. But being “appropriate” doesn’t seem to ever stop me from stating my opinion.
Every movie Michael Moore has ever made has been full of lies. Even his marketing is full of lies. “Oh no, Disney JUST NOW told me that they’re not distributing my film.” When in fact he had been told a year earlier and later admitted to lieing.
Clinton did nothing worthy of impeachment and neither has Bush. The last time the republicans decided they had a fanatical hatred for the democrat president the got their asses kicked in the 96? (or 98, I’m not sure) elections. Just like the Democrats got theirs kicked in the 02 elections.
I didn’t like when republicans acted like hateful brats in regards to Clinton and I don’t like it now that democrats are doing the same to Bush.
“What’s you point?” you say.
I’m generally a libertarian. So I would probably not vote for a democrat, but I usually vote libertarian whenever possible. But in this election I’m voting straight republican just to piss off the likes of Michael Moore. And it doesn’t help when I hear intelligent people saying that the president should be impeached, or that he purposefuly lied about Iraq, or that he stole the election.
And of course my all time favorite, refering to him as “Prince George”, which is exactly the same as calling Clinton “Slick Willy”.
So my point is that I could have “wasted my vote” on a third party this year, but instead I’m voting against Michael Moore. Good job Mike.
Of course Michael Moore has made millions off of Bush being in office so maybe he wants him to be reelected.
Well, Moore certainly gets people excited, doesn’t he?
I agree that the whole Disney “censoring” Moore thing that he brought up was pretty damn silly. It pissed me off as well. I also think that MM is the left’s version of O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al. They’re all blowhards and their whole raison d’etre is to get people riled up. The list of distortions and lies that O’Reilly alone has committed is extremely long.
If any of these people get an average American more interested in politics, than I think that’s a good thing, no matter what side of the political fence you lean to.
Also, please don’t bring up the whole “Moore has made millions” argument. It has nothing to do with the issues involved. He’s made millions simply because people are interested in what he has to say.
Michael Moore hasn’t made me more interested in politics. I was already interested. All he’s done is convince me to vote for Bush even though I’ve never voted for a republican president before.
The difference between Moore and O’reilly, Limbaugh, etc. is that their stated objective is to defeat democrats politically. Michael Moore’s stated objective is to have Bush dragged before a judge in handcuffs. I’d compare him more to Newt Gingrich, who actively worked to get Clinton thrown in jail. That all worked out well for ol’ Newt didn’t it?
As for him making money off Bush being elected, it’s fair game as long as he’s running around saying that Bush/Cheney went to war so they can make money. Moore has personally made way more money off the Iraq war than either Bush or Cheney.
I tend to believe that presidents are trying to do the right thing even if I disagree with how they’re doing it. So it pisses me off when I see someone like Michael Moore or Newt Gingrich try to paint the president as some evil asshole. That’s why I have to defend Clinton around my parents and defend Bush when I’m with my in-laws.
Let me preface these remarks with a question: you have seen the movie, right Kevin? Because I would never debate a movie I haven’t seen with someone who has. I doubt you have, since you detest Moore so much. So, if you don’t want your money going into his pockets, I’ll buy you a ticket. Just let me know how to pay you for it.
If you vote for a candidate simply because you don’t like the fact that some other dude doesn’t like him, I believe the terrorists have already won.
I have yet to read where Moore’s goal is to have Bush taken to jail. He has said repeatedly that his goal for this movie is for it to be the first one in history to affect a presidential election. Although, I believe Bush should be thrown in jail for the thousands of lives that have been lost based on his reckless actions. But, that’s just my opinion.
I’m not so sure that Moore has made “way more money” than Bush/Cheney off the war, but I think that’s not the point. The point is, it was Bush’s decision (not Moore’s) that we went to war. It’s that sticky “public office” thing. Moore wasn’t elected, Bush was (marginally) and Moore wants to help Bush get unelected. Moore has every right to do what he does and make as much money as he can in the process–he’s not an elected official.
I too believe that presidents are trying to do the right thing. I even believe that Bush (in his evil, twisted heart) truly thinks he is doing the right thing. The fact of the matter is he’s wrong and needs to be voted out of office in November.
No I haven’t seen the movie. But I don’t need to see it to know that he is a liar. Just like I don’t need to personally witness speeches by the KKK to know that I disagree with them. I’m sure you’ve seen every speech Bush has ever given right? Otherwise how could you disagree with him?No? Then don’t act all condescending towards me. I don’t appreciate it.
“it was Bush’s decision (not Moore’s) that we went to war.”
The democrats who voted for it take no blame? What about Clinton, who made official US policy “regime change in Iraq”? What about Saddam who refused to comply with UN resolutions?
And for god’s sake don’t start that “the terrorists have won “crap when you don’t get your way. It makes you sound like a right wing republican.
Here’s the quote:
“I want him paraded in handcuffs outside a police house as a common criminal because I don’t know if there’s a greater crime than taking people to war based on a lie. I’ve never seen anything like Bush and his people. They truly hate our constitution, our rights and liberties. They have no shame in fighting for their corporate sponsors.”
And the link:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13583626_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-THE%2DAWKWARD%2DCONSCIENCE%2DOF%2DA%2DNATION-name_page.html